Episode Transcript Raiden Kovacs here is with us at Find Your Grit. Raiden Kovacs is a professional MMA fighter. So Raiden, can you tell me a little bit about yourself and what got you started into mixed martial arts? Yeah, so for me, I grew up as a military brat and I had essentially moved around a majority of my life and it wasn't until... 00:21 I think I was stationed in Hawaii for four years where I think I first started taking karate like every every kind of like You know 10 year old kid wants to do for a couple of years So that was kind of my first taste of mixed martial art or some form of a martial art was until I got to High school here in Maryland where I started like actually taking like combat sports seriously And from wrestling wrestling led to BJJ BJJ led to MMA so it's been kind of like one gateway sport into 00:51 another going from like more intense like the intensity going higher and higher and more and more so that's how I got started in MMA. What at some point there what made you passionate about it? For me it was I really liked the first of all like the versatility of it because in a lot of sports you have like for example in wrestling you'll deal with like stallers or in 01:20 BJJ, you know, especially with like the advantage rule system with IBJJF There's a lot of like rule sets that I didn't like and something with MMA I always liked the options you had to pursue to a path of victory because like The more confined the rule set is the easier your opponent can like exploit it or certain advantage. Yeah And I'd never really like that And then there's also kind of just like the psychological aspect of it too where it's a very like daring exciting 01:50 do and that either like discourages you justifiably so or you like you want to try it. Yeah. You're in or you're not. Yeah. Like Jordan Burrows was like, yeah, I kind of thought about doing MMA until I saw somebody got like punched in the face and stuff like that. And like Jordan Burrows can take down like anyone alive. So if he's saying that, like it's fair. Like that's a fair response. But for some people, they find it exciting and they want to do it. Yeah. 02:16 For me that that's what the excitement of it was what draw me to it So you rose me brought up two good points one. It's not one-dimensional so you can train and multiple different Levels and still be a great grappler, but yet not succeed anywhere in an experience art you have to be able to apply every dimension and also the What you realize was doubt and a lot of people deal with doubt as a as a setback or something that holds them back between 02:46 It's like you said, you're all or nothing into this sport. 02:50 Were there any times that you then began to pick it up, began to understand that this is something that I'm not only passionate about, but I want to be able to pursue? And the jump into that, when did you fully commit? What was it a conversation that you had with your partner? Is it a conversation that you had with yourself or your coach? That was pretty much like, you know, I want to take this seriously now. Like this is where I imagine myself going. Yeah, for me, it was a pretty organic jump. Like I never talked to like 03:20 my coach and my girlfriend really about it. It was, I was already so passionate about training as a hobby that I was showing up multiple times a day just for the fun of it while I was pursuing my college degree. And I think there was just a certain point where I was like, well this is what you like doing and you wanna do all the time, why don't you pursue it as a career? It doesn't make sense to not wanna monetize it. 03:49 if you enjoyed doing it all the time. While I was pursuing a college degree that, while I liked, I wasn't crazy or passionate about like I was from MA. So for me, it was pretty organic. There was never this... 04:02 like, oh, I don't know, or like my coach came up to me and like, uh, you know, hey, this is something like you could actually do. It was something I made a decision. I made independently of me to the point that like people actually had to talk me down from dropping out of college. Cause that was like what I wanted to do. I was like, well, this is what I'm going to do. I don't want to pursue this degree anymore. They actually like told me like, Hey, no, like at least stick. Cause at that time I was like a junior, they're like, Hey, stick with it at least one more year to get this degree. Cause you already put so much time. 04:32 Which was the smart decision to make it was just I made the I made that decision Independent. Yeah from anything else. So then let's fast forward your what 26 years old? Yeah Okay, so your first fight then takes place any amateur. Yeah, how'd I go? Um, they went I think pretty stellar. I Executed the game plan pretty much to a tee and I had submitted him my opponent with 04:59 Ooh, a triangle, I think within the first two minutes. Okay. Now how was that type of emotion? Walk me through that emotion of your first feet landing in that octagon. Like relief, really. Everyone thinks it's like most of the time when you win you're ecstatic, which you are, but mostly you're just relieved. I always think back to when a daredevil jumps. 05:23 like all the buses or something like that, or like walks on a tightrope, their first thought when they like land, or they like, they get off the tightrope is, oh thank God I didn't fall. Yeah, that's right. It's after that initial thought passes, they're like, okay, yeah, that was pretty cool, right? Yeah. So it's always like relief. And like I've talked to most athletes. 05:42 And maybe on TV they'll tell you something, but the large majority of them will tell you it's relief is the first emotion they feel. And that's just kind of like normal. And you got the win. Yeah, which is really cool. It's after that's the secondary emotion you have. Initially it's relief and going, oh, thank God that worked out. Now after you did that first fight and you came back home with a W and I'm sure college was the last thing on your mind or anything else. I graduated at that time. That taste of blood now. Is it alien? Yeah. That taste of success. 06:12 Now let's fast forward. How many fights did you take into your amateur career back to back to back until you approached what was then your first loss? I had had my first fight, I think it was a year and a half into fighting my MMA career. 06:30 when I had like my first loss, because I started in February, a year went by and then I lost in August. So it's got like a year and a half. Now all that excitement, we had fights even after the first that you were winning and then the loss happened. And then that sense of relief. 06:49 turned into what? What would you think of like, obviously, thoughts of that I could imagine being depression, could be anxiety, could be the adrenaline going up, then going straight down. How intense was that up to then down? Down? Oh, for me it was horrible. It was, I think you'll frequently hear, some people say they're like, I don't care so much about winning, I just don't wanna lose. And there's always a bit of truth to that because like loss, 07:19 Where it's it's connected to other like losses in your life. So for example when you when you have a success It's very singular like man. I can't believe I did that right all your wins are singular But whenever you lose it reminds you of all the other times you've lost Wow Yeah, there's something my therapist told me so shout out to him Wow You know, that's why I like it hurts so much. Yeah 07:45 It's a very like wallowing feeling. And I remember my first loss, because the people I looked up to at the time were like these great athletes that I was like, oh man, like you fucked up, you're not gonna be like them. So I had like a super hard. 07:59 like depressive episode that I think lasted like six months. It was so bad in fact, it actually, it connected to like my second loss, where I went in still thinking about the first loss. And that made me making like mental errors and hiccups that led me into the second, which is why I've actually had like, I've totally reinvented kind of like how I see a loss. 08:26 And as stupid as it sounds, the biggest way I deal with it is like, life is like Dark Souls, which is like a video game I play. Which is just, it's like yeah, you're gonna just fuck up a lot until you have like one moment of success. Yeah. Like that's true for any other art form. Yeah. Like playing an instrument, you know, painting. Of course. You know, MMA. So I deal with it a lot better, but my first like loss... 08:52 was pretty horrible and I had had a kickboxing coach tell me one time where he's like, you know, fighting is the one sport that like when you lose, you feel like you've like lost your manhood. Versus like if you lose like a tennis game, you're like, oh man, that sucks, but you don't take it as hard. Yeah. Which like doesn't make, which is like, you know, which is the wrong way to look at it because it's like you did something, like when you fight, you're fighting against another. 09:19 like skilled opponent who's put in just as much time as you have, if not more, who's your size, your weight. So that was a piece of advice he really told me, which made me go like, yeah, it is kind of silly to view it as that way. This is still a sport. It's a very intense sport. It's a very dangerous sport. It's still a sport. Well, and it's not only incredibly emotional, but obviously there's a lot of emotion that you have to detach from it. So let me ask you this question. 09:49 You brought up how losing that fight brought you to other losses in your past. Yes. After six months go by, the next fight goes by. 10:00 What was the step or something that you took, not only was it the comprehension of understanding that this is a sport, it comes with emotion and just detaching it, or is it knowing that the past has absolutely nothing to do with the present moment and with the future? So we're talking about after, like after the second fight. The thought process of thinking that anything in your past that it attached to of your loss had nothing to do with it at all, but yet it was. It was just, it was naturally attached to your past, the mistakes and regrets. 10:30 it was a sport that was lost everything blood sweat and tears out in an octagon right why would that have any connection to anything in your past now it does and it's very normal but what did you realize to then separate both 10:45 to then separate from the past and now to the present. All right. Well, that's the thing. I don't think you do separate from it. I think that's the wrong way of looking at it. It's kind of an acceptance that that's a part of it. Because everybody wants to go in and be like, oh, I want to be the best. I want to be a killer and stuff like that. I'm no different than any other fighter in that regard. 11:10 And you're going to look to the few select people who their careers have played out in a way where that shows that. So like John Jones or like the Floyd and all these guys. But. 11:20 That's just like their professional record. Like you don't see them like losing or getting their ass kicked at the gym. Yeah. Muhammad Ali wasn't this great guy or this great boxer at the very beginning. Yeah. He had to like really work hard at it. And like, yeah, granted he had a great professional like career. Yeah. He didn't have his first loss. I think it was like his 31st fight where he actually like lost, but it's like, failure is just like a part of it and you have to like accept it. And you can look at those guys and be like, oh man, I want to be like them. I want to have this spotless record. 11:50 for perfection, which is inherently flawed. And fighting, especially something as versatile and complex as MMA, you have to have that same mindset. 12:02 And not having that mindset was what led to these losses, right? Because I tell people now, it's like, if you want to be perfect, become a dancer. Because that's a sport or whatever, an art form, whatever you want to call it, where you're practicing working things on like a tempo, like musical or like a dance. 12:24 To perfection. Yeah, I'm amazed very ugly and messy and like yeah, I get caught you're gonna get exactly So it's out of your control and you get on control as much as you can, right? So that's why I advocate people to go like you just got to accept like you're just gonna like fuck up and stuff like that So let me ask you this one of the best one of the probably the most Difficult things that we live in everyday life and I could tell you myself included is this self-destructing self-sabotaging 12:50 characteristic that everybody has, you know, and we named off a great bunch of examples of that. And would you say that now learning lessons through where you are now and looking back on it. 13:04 Do you find yourself being self-destructive now? Like, how do you go through battling yourself every single day when you walk into the gym? Because in this sport, if you have a good sparring day, that's going to set the tone to tomorrow more than it would be than anything else. Do you dial back? Do you understand that it's more than a sport but the emotion comes with it? Everything you just said, where do you keep your mindset at when it stops you from being impulsive to want to make a self-sabotage? 13:34 decision. Right, so like what how do we how do we basically manage like the negative mental aspects of the game? Of the everyday. Which I frequently find I think a lot of people might might I've done it too so I'm not any different where they want to like fix emotion they don't like they're like I don't want to be sad anymore I don't want to be angry anymore I don't want to be XYZ but I've kind of like relinquish myself from that where how I view it as like how am I 14:04 they're gonna come up, because it's like, aren't you like, you know, they're gonna be like, aren't you like scared, like whenever you go into the cage, it's like, yeah, you're always gonna be scared. Like the greats, like John Jones, GSP, everybody talks about how scared they are. But like when they go to compete, but what separates them from other competitors is how they manage it. And like, you know, when you go to like therapy and you work with like, you know, mental health counselors or therapists and whatnot, what they're teaching you ultimately is like management skills. So. 14:33 That's where I put my focus with. 14:38 You know, and I always tell people like have a good support structure, right? Cause if you're going to have a trainer for your physical health, if you're going to have a nutritionist for what you're eating, you can go to a doctor for your physical health, you can't neglect like the mental aspect. Yeah. So get the therapist, do whatever you got to do. Get a good mental support structure, whoever and whatever that looks like. Yeah. That helps you manage those things. It looks like you found the root cause to what it was, which was like the biggest thing in the world. Right. So that's, that's the thing is like, I want, I want like the results. Yeah. 15:08 and kind of understanding like how am I gonna best get there? And it's like, yeah, sure, I'd like to not feel scared anymore, but like that's just not gonna happen. Ultimately, like the human experience. That's a big exception to be able to step back from that. Yes, so all my energy goes to how am I gonna, like management strategies, like you know, so like when I have doubt. 15:29 I go back to like, you know, hey, that was just one bad training day. What do the majority of your training days look like? Yeah. Well, they look good. You know, you break down an analytical, you know, reconcile of everything that you just went through to be able to tell yourself, yeah, I am who I am and I don't need to use one solitary thing to be able to define what it is. Well, then that structure leads me to my next question. How does fitness and structure apply to then your everyday life? And obviously it holds such a good importance because you said to yourself, 15:59 but how much of an importance now is it everything is it all or nothing what the structure of fitness and health to your mental health and performance we take a pretty unconventional route on things right and like the result of this is always saying you want to be a better swimmer. 16:18 and going down each lane, it's not how many practices you go down each lane. How far can you get off the wall? You know, taking a different approach onto it. And that part of fitness, you know, how much of an importance is is giving something that you're not comfortable with a shot. And then once it works, accepting that it's just about what you don't know. 16:35 You know, there's a lot out there that's being able to do that. The importance of fitness in your life right now and what does it hold? Like let's name me off, you know, when it comes to your obviously, I mean, strength and conditioning coach, but you have now a, a striking coach. Right. Now when it comes to your head coach, and then Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu comes along with the training as well. I mean, you got people in your corner, big ones. Right. And now, and then what we focus on the most, even in this questionnaire is just you and like you battling you. 17:05 But every single one of those people right there and that importance obviously is you're giving people advice to say you need that corner You need that structure to be able to say what is the one thing you tell me all the time? This is what I pay you for yes. This is what I pay you for right so you're telling me so many times is that Delegate delegate the the mental Strains of what's gonna come with the sport and if you don't know how to handle it Maybe directly on yourself find a root cause of it right I leave emotion out of it and get a good corner Yeah, I'm gonna go back to your original question like 17:35 I find like the physical aspects will help with the mental right because if I know I'm confident in my cardio Like that takes away from my fear of like oh what happens if I become gassed in my competition, right? If I know I'm strong enough to you know get somebody my size off of me that takes away from the fear of like oh What happens if a guy is on top of me and he's raining down punches on me? so That's why like I say like the physical stuff is is 18:05 that will help with the mental aspects of it. It's not everything, because you can be the most ripped, have the best gas tank in the world, but if you still have no confidence, then you're not gonna do very well. But they're intrinsically linked. And when you... 18:23 when you can logically look at yourself and go, hey listen, I know I'm strong enough to deal with trained combatants on me, I know my cardio health and endurance is good enough to get me through the rounds and the fight, that will make you more confident. Yeah, that's the answer, I was, and that's the answer it is. Dramatically important. Not everything, but. But that's what we pay you for. Yes. That's what we do. That's what I pay you for, yeah, exactly. All right, shipping ships over to the next topic, okay? 18:53 First thing that pops in your mind. What's your proudest accomplishment? In life or like? In life. Life, it's honestly just kind of honestly pursuing my dreams. 19:08 Which is weird because I frequently tell myself, I'm like crazy motherfucker, what the fuck are you doing? And I have people all the time go up to me and be like, man, you shouldn't, this is dangerous, you shouldn't be doing this. When somebody tells you that, no matter how much you try to deny it, it's always going to echo in your head. You're always going to have that. 19:31 But there's been a handful of times in my life where people have actually gone up to me and commended me for doing it. Where it was like, I remember one person I was training with one time said, like I have a lot of respect for you. And I was like, well why? And he kind of was like, well, you know, well it's like, cause you're pursuing your dreams. And I'm like, not a lot of people do that. And that kind of took me aback. Because for me, I was kind of like, well yeah, what else was I gonna do? But. 19:57 It wasn't until the drive home that I was actually going like, yeah, shit, you're right. Most ordinary people don't do this. Yeah. That makes you not ordinary by any means. No. Somebody like me who, I'm inherently a nihilistic person, where I believe there's no inherent meaning to life. There's a certain, I guess... 20:24 romanticism in the idea that 20:27 I don't have to do this, but like, fuck it, I'm doing it anyway. Well, that's the difference between the atheist and the creatist is knowing that we're living on a rock in the middle of an atmosphere. So then the atheist would say, what's the point of life? But then the creatists would say, well, that is the point of life. But then if you mix both, then you have the point of saying, well, why would I go ahead and just on a basic logical level to say, why would I do anything if I don't have passion and purpose behind it? If I'm not fulfilling out what that dream is, then what is the point? And I like that. And I believe that a lot of people in your position, I do your 20:57 sport, follow along probably the same somewhat of logic, especially when you're risking out yourself and your integrity and your morals and really everything that you put on a poker table. But it's incredible. Yeah, because like if you look, if you read any YouTube comment, you read any like social media comment. 21:15 as soon as a fighter loses, everyone's talking like shit about them. But it's like, they're the guy out there really risking it. Yeah, and that's the truth. I have respect for people who do risk it. Like, my favorite fighters aren't the guys who have these undefeated records. It's the guys who take these big risks. And even though it doesn't work out for them, they're like, you know, I would rather... 21:38 have taken the risk and had it not work out than to do, because everyone can play it safe. Of course. So I admire the bravery and the courage that it takes to do that. That's what I try to do. I'm very obviously early in my career, but in my head, I'm not thinking to myself, be like Floyd Mayweather. I'm thinking to myself, be like Canelo. Be like, went up and down weight class. Has two losses in his record. But you can argue who's better, but there's no denying Canelo is the riskier guy. 22:08 a bolder guy who takes more risks. And I just, I respect that. That's a subjective thing, but I personally respect that more. So let's go straight into your last fight. Let's go straight into it. Explain to us what happened and the risk that you took and the promotion that I had and everything that led up to me getting a call at midnight, jumping up and down, knowing that you got a big deal with this promotion two weeks time to prep. Yeah, I'll explain all 30 seconds of it. Let's go ahead. Let's go ahead and talk about it. So essentially I am- 22:38 I had a short notice fight for PFL, which to those of you who don't know, PFL is not like the biggest fight league or organization, but it's definitely easily top 5 or 10. It's a very big deal to get an opportunity in that, especially somebody like me who I had not made my pro debut yet. Not only did I not fight pro yet. 23:08 um, it was a two-week notice fight so we had like very little time to prepare and my coach had went up to me and they're like hey you know why don't why don't we take this fight which 23:20 We had looked at it from the perspective of like, well, listen, you know, we got everything to gain from this, but like nothing really to lose. Cause it would be my very first fight professionally. It would be in like a very big stage that there are plenty of people who have like, you know, maybe 10 fights in their career. Who don't have not fought for an organization of like that. 23:43 at that level. So we took the fight because at the time I was working with you, my strength conditioning was on point, my skill set was on point. I was working with high level guys and having competitive rounds with guys who were in the UFC, some of the highest level UFC guys and hanging with them. So we took the fight. We went down to Orlando. 24:11 And again, my opponent hadn't fought in a while too, and basically when the round starts. 24:19 It was a small technical error, right? I just went off a little bit. And one of my coaches tells me, he's like, this is a game not about inches, but about centimeters. I definitely found that out to be true that day. Because essentially he lands a kick that even though I block and I did everything right, technically, even though I was off center, just because I was off center, it essentially wraps around, hits the back of my head and essentially stuns me, which is why like you'll see in the fight, like I fall down to my butt. 24:49 and I'd go to my back and I started defending. You know, at no point was I knocked unconscious, you know, versus if my hand was down, that'd be like a big technical error. But as it stuns me, I start defending, I start getting my frames, like my feet on his hips, he advances, you know, we're moving around, I'm working towards sweeps and stuff like that. And... 25:09 for reasons I don't know why. It was definitely an early call. I don't know why the ref did it, but being a ref is a tough job, so I'll have to forgive it. He calls the fight, and we're all kinda looking at there going like, what the fuck, like is that it? Unfortunately, the answer is yes, and you know, there's nothing we can do about it. So, it was essentially a fight that boiled down to one small mistake put me in a bad position. 25:38 which then led to the ref calling it, you know, which sometimes like happens in fights, you know, at the highest level, you know, you've seen UFC fighters go out there and the guy calls in the UFC fighters going like, you know, why did you do that? I was perfectly fine. The ref's like, oh shit, sorry, man. Like from my angle, my perception, it looked really bad. It looked like you were out. Yeah. So. Well, you mentioned a good point though too, after the fight and we talked and you said, I think I've pretty much seen all of it now. 26:06 I'll explain a little bit more about that. Yeah, so the comment I made to you and I've made to some of my coaches, I'm like, essentially, I've lived through every worst fear that I think a fighter can have. Other than, God forbid, a bad injury. God forbid that ever happens, even though I don't believe in the guy. But I've had a loss due to a technical error I made. 26:29 where my skill, I made a bad mistake. My, my, my, or my, I made the wrong move at the wrong time. My second loss was due to a mental error. Where physically, you know, technically I didn't do really anything wrong, or let me rephrase that. It wasn't that I wasn't technically like worse than the guy. It was my mental state led me to making the wrong calls, which then led to my loss. 26:55 So we have a technical error that created loss one, mental error which created loss two. My third fight was due to the ref intervening, which I remember getting a text message from a fellow fighter and he had said something to me that I was like, yeah, you're really right, where he's like, this is a sport where we have a hard enough time controlling the second guy in the cage. You can't do anything about the third guy, which is the ref. So. 27:21 The ref essentially called the fight before I could show any of the stuff I'd been working on. So that's why I say I've essentially lived through every worst fear I have. I've made technical errors, I've made mental errors, and then I've had times where out of my control, the ref came in and called it because maybe from his perception or what... 27:41 he felt the need to call it off, which I have no control over. And that's very frustrating, because in no other sport can that happen. You're right. In football, the ref will make a call, and then they'll review it on tape. And they can always come back. They can always come back. And even if the call is against you, it's a knock against you. 28:00 the game still continues. Yeah. And also, I think what's huge about all of that is that your perception of it is viewed upon it as these are the lessons that came out of it, of all these fights and all of the negative that came out of it. So now with all those gone, all three shots down to your head, what's next, right? What are we looking at? What are we looking at the fight next? 28:25 I mean for me it was it was kind of like that when the thought did like dawn on me that it was like man You've kind of you lived through essentially everything you were afraid of I just remember kind of thinking. Oh, okay. Well, yeah, it sucked but It ultimately doesn't change anything. Yeah, you know, I we were prepared for war and yeah to go and do it again Yeah, I was like, okay Well, like that doesn't take away from any of the hard work like I put in in my gym or for my program or any Of the skill growth I've had 28:52 You know, which, you know, some of the best advice was, you know, you got to look at fighting just like sparring rounds. I was like, OK, yeah, you lost that round. But he was to say, you're not going to come back and, and, you know, kill it around too. Exactly. So for me, I'm definitely going to be. 29:10 I don't want to say more confident, but definitely not as fearful. I've already been through it. Because I'm already like, I've already been through the worst of it. It ultimately didn't change anything. Yeah. So for me it's relieving almost. Which is weird because the primary emotion you feel is just relief. Yeah. So... We're living for freedom there. Yeah. So definitely I would say a much more free fighter. 29:35 So what are we looking at coming up here now? Nothing has been signed yet. Nothing has been announced yet. I can't say who, what, where, or when, because it's like, you know, everything was on point. Ref just didn't get injured. Look fine, feel good. I didn't even really have any marks on my face. That's how untouched I really was from it, which, you know, sucks, but. 29:54 I'm not going to lose this camp. Let's go right back into it. You know, like, like one of my coaches said, it's like, that was just one bad round. Yeah, of course. Back in round two. That's what the second fight's going to be for me around too. That's exactly it. No, I'm even getting caught with a head kick by, you know, and you're in a heavyweight division. So even getting caught with a head kick and knowing that 30:13 I'm a fart canhead, you know? Yeah, that was the biggest thing. I was like, yeah, my hand blocked it and I was fine. It was just because it wrapped around, which goes back to why I said, the mistake I made was the angle of it. But I was like, yeah, my hand was up there. I blocked it. Okay, cool. Fully conscious, on your back, ready to rock. Yeah, I was like, okay, cool. This wasn't, it stunned me, but I was like, yeah, that didn't hurt. But that's a good sense of relief right there. Yeah. 30:39 So yeah, my confidence in it was not shaken. It was just. 30:43 man this ref's killing me dog, like motherfuckers. Well I know and we weren't able to showcase a lot what we were building on but it's important to know that the building blocks that we made don't need to get tear down, not even one getting separated from another. It's right there. It's like anything else, just one bad day. You know, you're gonna have plenty other good days. So that's how I'm looking at it. So tell me, now, last big question. If you were to tell yourself something right now that you wish you knew earlier in all aspects of life, what would it be? 31:15 You're gonna fuck up, you might as well just enjoy it. I think that's the biggest thing. Just enjoy it and keep plugging away. What would you tell the person that will fuck up and say, how do you take another step forward? You just gotta keep doing it. I think there's no, it's like how do you get up a mountain? 31:34 one step at a time. You know, I think the only caveat to that I'd add was, like don't be an idiot. Like if you're running against a wall repeatedly, you definitely need to change tactics. But there's no get rich quick scheme with any art form, whether that's playing an instrument, learning a skill, doing a sport. That's why I think embracing kind of the futility of like, 32:02 Chasing perfection is a part of it, which is like I know I'm not ever gonna get it But I'm still striving for it. I'm inherently gonna fuck up I think is important because like that's one of the reasons why I took my first law so hard Yeah, I was like man. You weren't fucking perfect man. What's wrong with you? And then I was like, well, that's That was always doomed. Yeah to fail. Yeah Versus having the mindset of like growth is I think much more beneficial because you know, alright fuck I did something wrong that sucked What can I do differently? Yeah, you know, so 32:32 I just say you just keep doing it and you gotta embrace. That's where I think when people say you gotta let your ego go, really what they don't mean is that. Like let it go because you need an ego to succeed in any sport. But it's kind of accepting. 32:49 the process of it, which is fuck up after fuck up after fuck up. Right. Because now, you know, like when I go to when I go to spar and I fight like a Southpaw guy, I know not to go off angle a little bit now. Like I've learned that lesson the hard way. That's the truth. And you know, those are those are the failures. Those are the things you remember the most is when you fuck up. And you're redefining words as though like suffering. Suffering is something that is a choice. But how do you use the word suffering? You know, I think that's like that's what you say. 33:19 how you're saying it right now. It's though how you use a sentence. If I tell you to drop your ego, you know, Raiden, it's not dropping the ego, but it's reframing the question. Yes. Use a different set of lens to look at the same exact situation in front of you. Just be more strategic about what's logical. How can I separate emotion and logic to understand that I got to take another step forward to get up that mountain? Right. But what if a lot of people look at that mountain and say what's the point of getting on top? 33:47 You know, I think the best. 33:49 The thing is, is though, when most people say that, it's not because they don't want to, they're just, they're scared of going through the process. There you go. Frequently it's not like, what's the point? It's, they're just scared to doing it, which is why I think, when you accept the kind of the, the craziness of it and the challenges of it, I think that's what I find to be the most freeing. Yeah. Because it's like, yeah, I'm gonna go up this mountain, I'm gonna fuck up a bunch. Like, it's just a part of it. Yeah. You know, so. 34:19 and it's something I ascribe meaning to obviously. So for some people it's not gonna be fighting. Some people are gonna be like, I'm not getting in the fucking cage, that's fucking crazy. But whatever you care about, whatever your passion is, whatever your career field is, it's like, well why do you do it? It's just because you care about it. You have different reasons for caring about it. It's something, whether it's passion, money, need, X, Y, Z, it's because you prescribe meaning to it. Yeah, you're giving a purpose and a purpose. So for me, so for me it's because it's something 34:49 purposeful to me. Right. 34:52 you know, you got to just accept. I'm not saying don't be afraid of failure because that's not ever going to happen. You know, like there's no fixing that, but just accept it as part of the ride. And maybe you'll never really reach the top of the mountain. Maybe the top of the mountain is always the goal. And maybe the journey is always right, which is why I went into destination, which is why when you said, well, what would you tell yourself? It was you're going to fuck up. You might as well enjoy exactly. Right. It was awesome to have you on here. You're going to see him a lot more often and stay tuned to keep on. What's next coming? 35:22 all right? Here at Find Your Grit. See you guys later.